Legislature(2007 - 2008)BARNES 124
05/09/2007 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB56 | |
| SB111 | |
| SJR6 | |
| HB177 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 56 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SJR 6 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SB 111 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 56-HYDROGEN ENERGY RESEARCH PROGRAM 1:10:02 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO announced that the first order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 56, "An Act establishing the Hydrogen Energy Partnership in the Department of Commerce, Community, and Economic Development; requiring the commissioner of commerce, community, and economic development to seek public and private funding for the partnership; providing for the contingent repeal of an effective date; and providing for an effective date." [Before the committee was CSHB 56(CRA)] 1:10:14 PM REPRESENTATIVE HARRY CRAWFORD, Alaska State Legislature, noted that HB 56 has been passed from the House twice before. He explained that the bill sets up a partnership with the Alaska Energy Authority (AEA) and the University of Alaska for hydrogen research and development projects. The partnership is a receptacle for federal funds, grants, and private business funding. He stated that hydrogen use makes other types of renewable energy more efficient. It can be stored in tanks, put into pipelines, and moved around to places that need the energy. 1:12:21 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO said that innovation brings a leadership position in industry, and he expressed his amazement at hydrogen fueling stations for vehicles. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD agreed that Toyota, Honda, and a few other car manufacturers are looking to the future. He expressed his belief that alternative renewable energy is the wave of the future, and that hydrogen is a way to make it much more useable and efficient. 1:13:06 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO asked if the AEA currently exists. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied yes. CO-CHAIR GATTO asked which department AEA is located in. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that AEA is in the Department of Commerce, Community, & Economic Development (DCCED). 1:13:32 PM REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replayed the Toyota ad on the computer. CO-CHAIR GATTO noted that no specific language is used in the advertisement, so that it can be played anywhere. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD agreed that it portrays what can be done with hydrogen. CO-CHAIR GATTO asked if it is true. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD affirmed that it is. 1:15:03 PM REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG commented that BP is no longer an acronym for "British Petroleum," that it is now an acronym for "Beyond Petroleum." REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD revealed that the initial involvement for this bill came through a professor at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks (UAF) who is studying the use of geothermal energy produced on an island in western Alaska. He reported that during the fishing season the island needs 15 mega-watts of energy, but during the rest of the year they only need 2-3 megawatts. They propose to build a powerhouse to use the excess geothermal energy to manufacture hydrogen by splitting the seawater into oxygen and hydrogen atoms, which will be saved and shipped in fuel cells to villages. He explained that there is unlimited potential for wind, water, and geothermal here in Alaska, but there is no way to utilize it because there is no market at those sites. There needs to be a way to store and transport the energy. 1:17:58 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO expressed a concern with containment as it is difficult to keep hydrogen molecules from escaping. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD reported that zeolite, a mineral found in abundance in Alaska, allows the hydrogen to stabilize. 1:18:55 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO asked about acetylene. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD explained that acetylene is extremely volatile when not mixed, but adding the carbon honeycomb makes it a very stable gas. 1:19:28 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO observed that the carbon makes it safe. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD agreed, and stated that the zeolite works in the same principle. CO-CHAIR GATTO posed that zeolite stabilizes the hydrogen to prevent leakage. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that he did not know. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD reported that Bill Leighty, who usually performs a demonstration, is not available today. 1:20:28 PM MS. SARA FISHER-GOAD, Deputy Director-Operations, Alaska Industrial Development & Export Authority (AIDEA) and Alaska Energy Authority (AEA), Department of Commerce, Community, & Economic Development (DCCED), clarified that AEA is a public corporation organized under DCCED, though with a separate legal existence. Although AEA and AIDEA have the same Board of Directors, they are separate corporations with separate projects. She explained that HB 56 directs AEA to seek funding from federal and private sources to cover the cost of establishing and operating a hydrogen energy partnership. If sufficient funding is obtained, the rest of the bill will become effective and the Board of Directors will establish the members of the partnership. She noted that the committee substitute has one minor technical correction to reflect the primary change of making this an AEA program. She referred to Section 3 of CSHB 56(CRA) and suggested that this section be eliminated. She offered her belief that the fiscal note addresses any staffing necessary to carry this forward. 1:22:44 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO, referring to Section 3, asked if Ms. Fisher-Goad is addressing the staff support position. MS. FISHER-GOAD explained that in the original version of the bill, the partnership is established under DCCED, and the staff support mentioned in Section 3, is under DCCED. She offered her belief that the bill will be clearer if this section is removed. 1:24:13 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO posed that Section 3 provides staff support under the hydrogen energy partnership, which is established with this bill. MS. FISHER-GOAD explained that Section 3 refers to the staff duties of the DCCED, as listed in AS 44.33.020(a). 1:25:10 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO asked if the sponsor has any questions for Ms. Fisher-Goad. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that he trusts her decision. 1:25:58 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO asked if there is any unintended consequence by deleting Section 3. MS. FISHER-GOAD expressed her belief that Section 3 adds an unnecessary duty to the DCEED. She explained that removing the section clarifies that this is an AEA program and that DCEED does not have any responsibilities to support the partnership. 1:26:57 PM REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG expressed concern that this may be taking away the fact that there are designated staff. MS. FISHER-GOAD pointed out that the fiscal note addresses that staffing will be provided. She offered her belief that it is clear that this is an AEA responsibility to establish this partnership. She explained that the conditional effective requirements in the bill state that the executive director seek to establish additional funding sources for the partnership. She allowed that the partnership will move forward when there is sufficient funding, and that the fiscal note addresses the need for staff support. She noted that although AEA is a separate corporation, there is an AIDEA fiscal note that addresses the staff requirements. She explained that the funding will be through AEA, but the staff expense will be provided through AIDEA. 1:28:53 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO confirmed that there are two fiscal notes, one from AIDEA and one from AEA. MS. FISHER-GOAD furnished that the fiscal notes are a duplication of the funding sources, as AEA would provide AIDEA the funding to pay for the staff support. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD referred to page 3, line 25, and clarified that the funding is not through the general fund, but will be sought from federal and private sources. He explained that if there is not any money from federal and private grants, there will not be a hydrogen energy partnership. CO-CHAIR GATTO discussed the bill with Co-Chair Johnson. 1:31:06 PM DAVID LOCKARD, Lead Engineer, Rural Energy Program, Alaska Industrial Development & Export Authority (AIDEA) and Alaska Energy Authority (AEA), Department of Commerce, Community, & Economic Development (DCEED), reported that last year Alaska became the fifth state in the country to have a geothermal power generation project come to fruition, at Chena Hot Springs. He relayed that there was also a geothermal energy conference at Chena, reflecting the statewide interest in developing geothermal resources for power generation and direct use, including heating, green houses, and mariculture. CO-CHAIR GATTO asked if Mount Spurr is also included as an energy resource. MR. LOCKARD replied that there is a lease application for a geothermal project at Mount Spurr currently being reviewed by the Department of Natural Resources (DNR). 1:32:54 PM JIM STIMPFLE announced that he is glad to hear that Alaska is thinking about hydrogen energy. He noted that rural Alaska is aware that the price of oil and natural gas will always be increasing and energy will become unaffordable. He stated: The quicker and the faster that we can move rural Alaska, if not the entire state, to renewable energy resources in the state, whether that be wind, solar, geothermal, or hydro, along with the development of hydrogen energy as a transportation fuel for rural Alaska, the better and smarter we will become in getting away from peak oil depletion and natural gas depletion with ever increasing prices. MR. STIMPFLE conveyed that Nome hosted an energy conference during the prior year. There had been a presentation by an Idaho engineer who had helped start the first wind to hydrogen production plant in Idaho for industry. He mentioned that General Motors is shipping the first electric-hydrogen vehicle to China, called the Volt, and it can be run on either hydrogen or electricity. He noted that Iceland has made a 50 year commitment to bring the country to hydrogen production for use in transportation and fishing. He commented that a serious effort to move Alaska to hydrogen will require AEA funding of at least $200 million. CO-CHAIR GATTO closed public testimony. 1:36:59 PM REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING encouraged as much private funding as possible and stated that he will vote to move the bill. He asked if there is an inventory of realistic sites for a geothermal plant. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD responded that the engineer working at Chena Hot Springs reported on work to tie their geothermal energy generator to hydrogen for storage of the excess energy. He allowed that the potential energy is thousands of mega-watts, with no means of transport. Representative Crawford noted that Mr. Leighty is on the leading edge of the technology to transfer energy to ammonia for storage. He reminded the committee that there is a press release from Senator Lisa Murkowski in the members' packets, which he read in part: In an effort to increase funding for renewable energy power projects, Senator Lisa Murkowski today won Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee approval for an amendment to comprehensive energy legislation that will provide federal grants to help utilities build renewable energy projects. The amendment, which Murkowski drafted with Alaska Senator Ted Stevens, creates a Renewable Energy Construction Grant program that will provide up to 50-50 federal matching grants for the construction of wind, geothermal and ocean energy projects nationwide and small hydroelectric projects exclusively in Alaska. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD added that the federal grant program will provide up to $800 million for renewable energy construction, possibly including the Fire Island wind farm, Chena Hot Springs geothermal project, and other geothermal, biomass, ocean energy, and small hydro projects statewide. He allowed that this will get us started on the road to the Alaska future. 1:41:23 PM REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON observed that on page 3, line 1, (5), the "tribal organizations" are federally recognized but are not necessarily "of the state." REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that the intent is for residence in the state. REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON asked to verify that page 2, line 31, (4) "an Alaska regional development organization" is an ARDOR. 1:43:08 PM REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI offered his support of the bill, and referring to page 2, line 17, asked for assurance that the University of Alaska is willing to support this. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that the University of Alaska has already said they want to be a part of this. 1:44:15 PM CO-CHAIR JOHNSON offered his support to amend the bill to allow $100,000 from the general funds to finance the project, should the federal grants not materialize. REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG offered his belief that the committee is allowed to amend a fiscal note. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON posed that only the source of the money would need to be amended. 1:45:41 PM REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD allowed that all the prior versions which contained general fund use have not been passed. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON said that is why he will not offer it as an amendment, but he does want it on the record that he supports this being a general fund item. 1:46:22 PM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved that the committee adopt Amendment 1, as follows: Page 2, lines 19-21 Delete all material There being no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted. 1:47:11 PM CO-CHAIR JOHNSON encouraged the committee to review the wording "tribal organizations of the state." He offered his concern that recognizing a tribe might lead to the legalization of gaming. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD offered his support to a change in wording. REPRESENTATIVE ROSES moved that the committee adopt Amendment 2, as follows: Page 3, line 1, Delete "of the state" Insert "in the state" CO-CHAIR JOHNSON objected. He expressed his belief that the word "tribal" needs to be reviewed, so that there are no unintended consequences. 1:49:07 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO offered to delete "tribal" and replace it with "various." CO-CHAIR JOHNSON noted that it is important to include the indigenous peoples. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD guaranteed that this will be fixed. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON removed his objection. There being no objection, Amendment 2 was adopted. 1:49:46 PM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if the sponsor will support changing "tribal" to "Alaska Native." REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved that the committee adopt Amendment 3, as follows: Page 3, line 1, Delete "tribal" Insert "Alaska Native" There being no objection, Amendment 3 was adopted. 1:50:32 PM REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON posed that defining geographical representation for each of the nine members listed in Section 4(b) will better serve all of Alaska. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON suggested that making this a conceptual amendment will allow the Division of Legal and Research Services to wordsmith. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD agreed that it is "fine with having people from all over the state represented," but he doesn't want to make the bill restrictive. CO-CHAIR GATTO suggested that making this change in the next committee of referral will allow time to adjust the wording. 1:52:49 PM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON referred to page 3, lines 6-8, asking if this is the same authorized per diem as regular boards and commissions members receive, or is it similar to the permanent fund members per diem, which is substantially more. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that he did not remember. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON expressed his belief that these partnership members are similar to regular board and commission members. 1:54:00 PM CO-CHAIR GATTO explained that the limited financial resources of this bill necessitate a more reasonable per diem. REPRESENTATIVE SEATON offered that the per diem can be addressed in House Finance Committee. CO-CHAIR JOHNSON moved to report CSHB 56(CRA) as amended out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHB 56(RES) was reported from the House Resources Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|